So far, the ONLY advantage of getting OLD (I'll be 70 in the summer) is that I can remember things that happened before many of you were born. I hope my memory holds up for a few more years and I prove to be an ancient worthy of your appreciation. Then I will follow my fathers into dust, and the next OLD GUY will have to step up.
Nathan Natas
JoinedPosts by Nathan Natas
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39
This Is It?
by Nevuela ini can't say much out of fear of getting caught, but i overheard a jw i know on the phone with a friend talking about "how close we are to the end.
" yeah, yeah, i know.
we've been on the brink of armageddon for well over a century, but what struck me about this particular instance was what she said next.
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39
This Is It?
by Nevuela ini can't say much out of fear of getting caught, but i overheard a jw i know on the phone with a friend talking about "how close we are to the end.
" yeah, yeah, i know.
we've been on the brink of armageddon for well over a century, but what struck me about this particular instance was what she said next.
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Nathan Natas
Ah! Here it is! (Page 283)
"Even when something is anticlimactic, at a large convention, it is made to feel, at least in
retrospect, climactic - as, for example, at Yankee Stadium in August, 1950, where the
Witnesses were reminded of the old belief that God’s faithful - Abraham, Joseph, David
- would rise from the dead before the end of the world. This aroused tremendous
expectations, which were heightened by the speaker, F. W. Franz, when he suggested
that among those gathered together were the "Princes of the New Earth."
The spectators were roused to tears by the prevailing excitement, expecting to see these
biblical figures. Some stood up; others rushed to the entrance near the speakers' stand,
where they would have a better view. The speaker quieted the crowd and then compared
the new Jehovah's Witnesses to those of old. In effect, he assured them that they were the
new princes, those who had turned their backs on a world slated for doom and who must
persevere in going forward to build the New Jerusalem.
Forward, indeed. This was, in fact, a denial of a previously cherished and defended
belief, couched so as to make conventioneers feel that something had been added unto,
not taken away from, them. David didn't pop out of the dugout, and Solomon didn't
surface on the speaking stand; but Franz had thrilled his audience nonetheless. (I myself
was irritated - though I applauded as fervently as anyone else; I had a distinct sense of
having been had, and I felt guilt as a consequence. And I wondered how many coronaries
Franz had occasioned by his initial provocative remarks. And from some of the
mutterings I heard as I left the Stadium that night, I I deduced that others were irritated
as well, though not, perhaps, as guilt-stricken as I was for allowing myself to feel vexed.)"
My point is that this happened 68 years ago in 1950. Franz was the Watchtower's "Wizard of OZ," hiding behind his cloak of sanctimony, he uttered bald-faced LIES to gullible true believers.
The Watchtower still LIES to the flock, but today's LIARS don't have the phony gravitas that adorned Franz.
Barbara Grizzuit Harrison is as special to me as RAY Franz (Freddy's nephew) is to many XJWs today. Barb's book came out as I was exiting the WTB&TS, and it gave me the encouragement of knowing I was doing the right thing, even though it was not easy. I had the opportunity to speak with BGH before she died and I thanked her for the help she had given me.
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39
This Is It?
by Nevuela ini can't say much out of fear of getting caught, but i overheard a jw i know on the phone with a friend talking about "how close we are to the end.
" yeah, yeah, i know.
we've been on the brink of armageddon for well over a century, but what struck me about this particular instance was what she said next.
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Nathan Natas
page 282:
"For those who remain Witnesses for ten, twenty, or thirty years - preoccupation with
Armageddon growing with the passing time - each year provides at least one occasion
for refreshment, one source of sweetness: the communal tenderness that is so lacking in
dreary local congregational meetings is at evidence at large conventions of Jehovah's
Witnesses, and particularly at international conventions."
I'm still looking for the thing I'm looking for...
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39
This Is It?
by Nevuela ini can't say much out of fear of getting caught, but i overheard a jw i know on the phone with a friend talking about "how close we are to the end.
" yeah, yeah, i know.
we've been on the brink of armageddon for well over a century, but what struck me about this particular instance was what she said next.
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Nathan Natas
I'll be back in a few minutes after I find what I want to show you...
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39
This Is It?
by Nevuela ini can't say much out of fear of getting caught, but i overheard a jw i know on the phone with a friend talking about "how close we are to the end.
" yeah, yeah, i know.
we've been on the brink of armageddon for well over a century, but what struck me about this particular instance was what she said next.
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Nathan Natas
Let me point you to a free download of
"Visions Of Glory: a History and a Memory of Jehovah's Witnesses" by Barbara Grizzuti Harrison
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58
Two witness rule: who cares?
by _Morpheus ini find people railing against the so called “two witness rule” puzzling.
i think its a complete and total non issue.
for those that protest, argue or advocate for change in that rule, why?
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Nathan Natas
_Morpheus expanded,
"A part of my point here as well is that in complaining about the so called two witness rule, the ex jw community is actually validating the orgs right to have a say in this... They dont...I dont care what their rules are. As i have noted a dozen times already, its irrelevant... The allegations belong in the hands of law enforcement, period."
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE!
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58
Two witness rule: who cares?
by _Morpheus ini find people railing against the so called “two witness rule” puzzling.
i think its a complete and total non issue.
for those that protest, argue or advocate for change in that rule, why?
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Nathan Natas
Heydog said, in part,
"...once a person is determined to be a child molester (even if they never get disfellowshipped for it), they can NEVER serve in any capacity at the Kingdom Hall."
I'm going to challenge that. In the past the WTB&TS has clearly stated that after a period of time such a brother CAN serve, and that theory has been proven in practice; it has happened.
I left in the mid-late 1970s and I was only an MS and pioneer when I did, so there is a gulf of time and "hands-on experience" between us. I was in the Middle Village, Queens, New York City congregation, and my terminal issue was a serial pedophile we had in our congregation who was one of the "6-month wonders" we had back then prior to Armageddon coming in 1975. Remember that? I hear that today Armageddon is ALMOST as close as it was in 1974! Anyway, I learned of this because one of the Elders on the committee that investigated this ABOMINATION was disgusted that the other elders (they are all dead now) wanted to protect Jehovah's name by doing NOTHING. This Elder and I were close friends and he came to me in anguish over what "justice" he had seen. He was shattered. I shattered too. He stayed, I left.
A while after this, Brother Serial Pedophile decided to marry a sister in another congregation who had two small children (her husband left her when she became a JW). The Elders never felt they ought to go to this sister and warn her about what she was marrying. They were married in a Kingdom Hall.
If I need to, I'l try to find references that support my argument.
Welcome aboard, I hope you stick around, Heydog!
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42
Hello Everyone, Another JW Has Left!
by SuperGirl injust want to introduce myself and let you know that this site is working and is a big help to lots of jws with doubts.
i've been lurking for about a year, the first couple of times i was frightened and literally shaking visiting an apostate site but it's the only place i can come to for sanity.
the religion has become a nut house.
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Nathan Natas
WOW!
WELCOME, SuperGirl! Despite what the mentally diseased elders tell you, you won't find any Kryptonite here!
I'm an atheist, as are any here, and tell your ex - who seems admirably rational - that he might like it here too!
...and your son is one smart kid! Love him and support his efforts to be the best he can be!
Welcome again, we wish you the best!
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42
Watchtower Corp of New York worth over$ 2 billion
by Diogenesister inin the montana sex abuse court case for the first time watchtower has been required by the courts to give a financial statement to the court to assess awards of punitive damages for negligence and (for the first time)malice in non compliance of mandatory reporting laws.. watchtower corp of new york has finances in excess of $2 billion while cc of jw is worth $49 million.
this doesn't include the pensylvania corp or what overseas branches may have.. pretty healthy bank balance by any standards..
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Nathan Natas
That amount just doesn't seem right to me - years ago I saw an estimate that the total worldwide cash flow for the WTB&TS was very close to ONE BILLION DOLLARS a year.
So I have to wonder if the WTB&TS has two sets of books - and if memory serves, W. E. van Amburgh, who was the long-lived Vice President and Secretary of the WTB&TS - admitted in court that he had two sets of books.
Today, no one remembers who WEVA was, just a few. Rutherford HATED WEVA because WEVA tried to be a good man. I'll admit he followed some wacky dogma, but I think that personally it would have been great to know him.
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58
Two witness rule: who cares?
by _Morpheus ini find people railing against the so called “two witness rule” puzzling.
i think its a complete and total non issue.
for those that protest, argue or advocate for change in that rule, why?
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Nathan Natas
I'm glad Morpheus explained where he was coming from, because I was a bit like, "Wha.???" when I first read the thread. It is obvious I wasn't alone in my puzzlement.
My understanding of Morpheus' position is that he is saying "IGNORE THE WATCHTOWER'S RULES! The "two-witness rule" is an abomination! If you are a victim of Watchtower dogma, GO TO THE POLICE!"
Years ago right here on this site we had a kind of revolutionary revelation - we can REJECT the Watchtower's rules and refuse to play their game!
Don't suffer in silence - go to the legal authorities and talk to them about what happened to you! Contact one of the increasing number of attorneys who have experience with JW abuse cases and talk to them.
When we were in the Watchtower society were were taught a BIG LIE - that Jehovah cared about us. The TRUTH is that NO ONE will care about you more than you will. Resolve to speak for yourself!